Alfred had quite early on ditched his ceremonial garb and the crown -- hidden away in the apartment that he shared with Hvitserk and Ivar. He'd changed to more practical pants and tunic, a leather vest at times but not today. He looked up when Kelson came over, surprised by the question.
"The orchard?" he questions. He shakes his head shortly after. "I don't think it really belongs to anyone," he smiles. He notes the other's crown curiously.
Kelson was still a little....shall we say unsure about the people here. Having met Tucker upon coming through the Door, when he was stealing all the boxes of girl scout cookies to sell back to the residents at a later date, well, it left Kelson a little uneasy. And with the lack of materials in the area, he didn't put it past someone to rifle through his things and melt down his crown for something more 'useful'. When he got the ward cubes he'd asked Curufin to make for him, perhaps he'd switch out of his more traditional garb. Once he was sure it was safe.
The idea of land not belong to someone was definitely something Kelson was having to get used too. It was really rather odd, like everything else about this place.
Another thing he was having to get used to. People not knowing who he was. "King Kelson of Gwynedd. And you?"
In all truth, Alfred might have been half relieved if someone would melt down his crown -- though it's really a quite simple one and perhaps it wouldn't actually prove to make anything all that useful or valuable. It was just a piece of metal after all and here it meant nothing and at home it was heavy with the weight of what wearing it meant.
He supposes one of the gods probably own this place but he hasn't particularly had time to really look into who has what. He'd been occupied figuring out how to live in this new environment with new technologies and well.. everything.
There's a moment that Alfred is very tempted not to disclose his real identity. It's already brought him an experience of someone who is from after his lifetime but had known of him because of what he supposes he is destined to accomplish. But in the end, he opts for honesty.
"King Alfred of Wessex." It might or might not mean anything. That's out of his control.
King Alfred of Wessex meant little to Kelson, fortunately. Coincidentally, there was an Alfred who was born around the same time as the Alfred in front of him, however he went into holy orders and eventually became Archbishop. As Kelson's world mirrors his in some respects, Alfred never accomplished what he was destined too. Kelson's accent is actually similar to Alfred's in many respects, but Kelson has a bit Welsh in there as well. He's still in his silk court robes, the golden lion rampant guardian of Gwynedd showing on crimson.
It was nice to meet another king here. Kelson nodded his head in acknowledge of him and the other man's rank. As for melting down the crown, that was the difference between the two wasn't it? Kelson had been king for four years by now, he had a definite sense of what he wanted to accomplish and what kind of king he was and wanted to be. Alfred was still in the beginning throes. Kelson was tired of wearing it too, but taking it off didn't take off the responsibilities, as much as he had tried. He'd still feel the weight.
"I'm not familiar with Wessex. It's a pleasure to meet it's king nonetheless."
Alfred had a clear idea of what kind of King he would be. It was not necessarily that he had ever had his own vision of it but he had been groomed by his grandfather to be a different kind of king. He was not going to be a warrior king like his half brother would have been. Alfred is a decent warrior but his mind for strategy and his ability to empathize and be compassionate to people and strive for peace and unity would be the difference. It's hard to say if perhaps it's his father's influence on him -- despite never meeting him that he ended up rather like him, though less humble -- or his grandfather's guiding hand that had made him the way he is.
All the same, the weight of how he had become king is heavy and being away from his kingdom and his mother makes it harder to see the path that has been laid out for him to walk.
"It is an honor," Alfred offers a friendly smile.
"I still feel like a Prince, though."
The last thing he remembers from home, literally, is his coronation.
The weight of that crown is heavy, even if it's the lightest coronet. Kelson, when he was first crowned, wanted nothing more than to fill his fathers shoes, to be half the king he was. As he grew, Kelson realized he wanted to take the good parts of what made Brion a good king, and discard the others, like the part of Brion that made him less than comfortable with his own inherent abilities. Kelson was not going to be afraid of himself. On the other hand he'd also spent his entire reign trying to make sure his subjects weren't afraid of him. It was a balancing act he hadn't quite managed yet, and had a tendency to hide who he was in order to please his kingdom. Maybe they could help each other.
"I know that feeling well. Just because you've been crowned and consecrated, it doesn't mean you know what to do with it or in any way make you ready. It does get easier. Especially if you have good people behind you."
And if those good people aren't constantly after you to take a wife. But that was Kelson's problem. And he was not ready.
Alfred tries to smile but he's not sure that he has good people behind him. His brother is likely angry and perhaps he would want a way to take the crown that should have been his and his mother...she was driven and he is not sure she always has his best interests at heart, at least how he would prefer. He ends up shrugging.
"Perhaps," Alfred says simply, his worries about how to create a navy, how to completely shift the way that Wessex and the rest of England is and unite the different kingdoms is a chess game that he has yet to figure out where all the pieces even are and here he feels so far removed that it is a constant hum of anxiety in his mind but it feels far out of his ability to plan for.
Kelson would have understood, at least a little. He was not exactly on the best of terms with his own mother, and the church did try to have him excommunicated. His own coronation sparked an ecclesiastical schism, one holy war, one civil war and two invasions. Getting crowned was easy, holding it was a different issue altogether.
The young king smiles softly, as his counterpart asks the very question. "Yes, I have an army. Royal Haldane Lancers and Archers and knights, dedicated ecclesiastical troops and men serving each duchy and earldom. Are you having a problem?" Kelson asks quietly.
Uniting different kingdoms was not something Kelson ever had to deal with, keeping his kingdom united was however. Gwynedd had conquered a fair amount of land and other kingdoms, which...was one way of doing things. Kelson was now trying to deal with an underage king he was holding from a rival kingdom he had assumed control over as suzerain, in a desperate attempt to keep the poor boy alive until he could assume his own throne. And hope his family didn't stab him in the back after.
Alfred smiles slightly as the other answered his question. The question that followed draws a sigh from Alfred. He feels that this problem could have so easily been avoided. He'd tried to fight for peace when it had been offered but his adopted father and a Bishop had had other plans, dishonoring England by breaking a parlay. It'd make peace with the Vikings near impossible in the future. They had no reason to trust the Saxons again.
"Problems are many and solutions are too few," Alfred answers, the smile tired already. "I believe we must build a Navy to fight invaders before they get to our land but it requires more than my own resources to do so. There is little I can do from here but I cannot seem to forget the problems."
That was quite a problem, breaking a parlay was not only dishonorable but showed how much respect and control Alfred had over others and how much they respected his wishes and opinions. It would make peace impossible, but it was also possible Alfred was facing issues on two fronts as well, internal as well as external. It was a problem Kelson knew well. He hoped Alfred didn't have to kill every one of them.
But the problem Alfred voiced was one Kelson never had. Kelson had inherited an established kingdom, with abundant resources, even if all those resources wouldn't always play nicely together.
"It sounds as though you need allies who can lend either resources or support of their own. Invaders may not stop if they conquer your kingdom. If Gwynedd was conquered, I am sure the Connait or Howicce and Llannedd would be next. And they are not anywhere near the size of Gwynnedd. They'd be overrun. I don't know much about the geography of your kingdom, but surely there are others who realize their prosperity is dependent upon it's neighbors?
"Our neighbors do not have much reason to trust us. My grandfather was able to take over another Kingdom already and his ambitions weren't unknown to others," Alfred says, the ambitions for one kingdom instead of the many that made up England.
"Even aside from that, most people do not believe in anything but the brute force of an army."
"Some of my subjects might have said the same thing about me. Some of them did. You have to give them a reason to trust you, to prove that you are not your grandfather, and that your ambitions are not his own. Some you will not be able to persuade. That is unfortunate, but not your goal. Give them a reason to look up to you. A king who cannot defend his people and his crown does not deserve to keep it. You have to find a way."
Kelson smiled sadly back at the other king. "Besides, if trust fails, there are other options." Sometimes brute force was necessary. Or gaining access to the right hostage. Kelson had forced peace because of that very same problem. No one trusted.
Alfred smiles briefly. "Well, that is it, my ambitions are the same. I want a united England as my grandfather had dreamed of. We are weak when we are splintered," Alfred explains. It is not that he is hungry for the power but the need for a united front against powerful enemies, advancements would be easier to gain in other fields as well if everyone were loyal to one instead of different kings.
"I am sure that is where my Kingdom is heading," Alfred says, a sigh escaping him. Whether it is with the other Saxon kingdoms or the North men he would be at war and he could only hope that he wouldn't be fighting two wars at once.
Kelson had almost had to fight two wars on different fronts at the same time. He really wouldn't recommend it. Thankfully he had been able to take care of one before dealing with the other, but at a cost. He hoped poor Lord Derry's mind would heal after his body had.
"I have no doubt you can convince them. Ultimately it depends on what each wants, what moves who. Some depend more on rational arguments, some inspiration, others will may view it more as an investment and want something in return. But you can do it." Alfred really had no other choice it seemed.
"Your grandfather wanted to unite England?" He wasn't sure where England was or what it was a part of but it sounded important to Alfred.
"Perhaps," Alfred says noncommittally. At times he finds it hard to be optimistic about his chances, especially here so far removed from it somehow it feels more impossible and harder to dream about what could be. Still, he's met someone who knew that he had achieved his goals. That he was the first King of a United England and so somehow it must work but now he can't imagine how he does it. Sometimes, he's not sure he's the Alfred that knight had thought he was.
"Yes, it's not that he was seeking to be powerful, though he did have a certain admiration for the Roman empire and I think he had a vision for a Saxon empire and that started with united the kingdoms into one."
There mere fact that someone had recognized Alfred as the king he would become, even if he wasn't the right Alfred, to Kelson meant that Alfred had it in him. He could succeed. One didn't need to be an optimist to succeed, but it sure helped if one actually thought he could do it. It seemed as if Alfred was struggling under the weight of that crown and the future set before him.
While Kelson didn't have a grand destiny to live up too, he understood somewhat. It was a little weird when your patron saint took a literal interest in your work. He hoped he could live up to the dream, and dismantle some of the rampant bigotry and prejudice that had destroyed so many in Gwynedd over the years. A different kind of uniting.
As for Alfred's history lessons, to Kelson his pronunciations sounded a little off but at least he understood. Although given Kelson's literal visions of Saint Camber...he thought he better double check about Alfred's grandfather.
"Did he have a literal vision or an idea? What would your United England look like? A main seat with individual duchies and earldoms, coming together against the invaders?"
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winterfish
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Date: 2018-04-11 03:46 pm (UTC)"The orchard?" he questions. He shakes his head shortly after. "I don't think it really belongs to anyone," he smiles. He notes the other's crown curiously.
"Might I be so bold as to ask who you are?"
no subject
Date: 2018-04-11 04:10 pm (UTC)The idea of land not belong to someone was definitely something Kelson was having to get used too. It was really rather odd, like everything else about this place.
Another thing he was having to get used to. People not knowing who he was. "King Kelson of Gwynedd. And you?"
no subject
Date: 2018-04-20 03:16 am (UTC)He supposes one of the gods probably own this place but he hasn't particularly had time to really look into who has what. He'd been occupied figuring out how to live in this new environment with new technologies and well.. everything.
There's a moment that Alfred is very tempted not to disclose his real identity. It's already brought him an experience of someone who is from after his lifetime but had known of him because of what he supposes he is destined to accomplish. But in the end, he opts for honesty.
"King Alfred of Wessex." It might or might not mean anything. That's out of his control.
no subject
Date: 2018-04-20 12:31 pm (UTC)It was nice to meet another king here. Kelson nodded his head in acknowledge of him and the other man's rank. As for melting down the crown, that was the difference between the two wasn't it? Kelson had been king for four years by now, he had a definite sense of what he wanted to accomplish and what kind of king he was and wanted to be. Alfred was still in the beginning throes. Kelson was tired of wearing it too, but taking it off didn't take off the responsibilities, as much as he had tried. He'd still feel the weight.
"I'm not familiar with Wessex. It's a pleasure to meet it's king nonetheless."
no subject
Date: 2018-04-26 10:43 pm (UTC)All the same, the weight of how he had become king is heavy and being away from his kingdom and his mother makes it harder to see the path that has been laid out for him to walk.
"It is an honor," Alfred offers a friendly smile.
"I still feel like a Prince, though."
The last thing he remembers from home, literally, is his coronation.
no subject
Date: 2018-04-26 11:05 pm (UTC)"I know that feeling well. Just because you've been crowned and consecrated, it doesn't mean you know what to do with it or in any way make you ready. It does get easier. Especially if you have good people behind you."
And if those good people aren't constantly after you to take a wife. But that was Kelson's problem. And he was not ready.
no subject
Date: 2018-05-07 08:26 am (UTC)"Perhaps," Alfred says simply, his worries about how to create a navy, how to completely shift the way that Wessex and the rest of England is and unite the different kingdoms is a chess game that he has yet to figure out where all the pieces even are and here he feels so far removed that it is a constant hum of anxiety in his mind but it feels far out of his ability to plan for.
"Do you have an army?"
no subject
Date: 2018-05-07 04:37 pm (UTC)The young king smiles softly, as his counterpart asks the very question. "Yes, I have an army. Royal Haldane Lancers and Archers and knights, dedicated ecclesiastical troops and men serving each duchy and earldom. Are you having a problem?" Kelson asks quietly.
Uniting different kingdoms was not something Kelson ever had to deal with, keeping his kingdom united was however. Gwynedd had conquered a fair amount of land and other kingdoms, which...was one way of doing things. Kelson was now trying to deal with an underage king he was holding from a rival kingdom he had assumed control over as suzerain, in a desperate attempt to keep the poor boy alive until he could assume his own throne. And hope his family didn't stab him in the back after.
no subject
Date: 2018-05-14 02:43 am (UTC)"Problems are many and solutions are too few," Alfred answers, the smile tired already. "I believe we must build a Navy to fight invaders before they get to our land but it requires more than my own resources to do so. There is little I can do from here but I cannot seem to forget the problems."
no subject
Date: 2018-05-15 06:43 pm (UTC)But the problem Alfred voiced was one Kelson never had. Kelson had inherited an established kingdom, with abundant resources, even if all those resources wouldn't always play nicely together.
"It sounds as though you need allies who can lend either resources or support of their own. Invaders may not stop if they conquer your kingdom. If Gwynedd was conquered, I am sure the Connait or Howicce and Llannedd would be next. And they are not anywhere near the size of Gwynnedd. They'd be overrun. I don't know much about the geography of your kingdom, but surely there are others who realize their prosperity is dependent upon it's neighbors?
no subject
Date: 2018-05-19 09:53 pm (UTC)"Our neighbors do not have much reason to trust us. My grandfather was able to take over another Kingdom already and his ambitions weren't unknown to others," Alfred says, the ambitions for one kingdom instead of the many that made up England.
"Even aside from that, most people do not believe in anything but the brute force of an army."
no subject
Date: 2018-05-20 12:38 am (UTC)Kelson smiled sadly back at the other king. "Besides, if trust fails, there are other options." Sometimes brute force was necessary. Or gaining access to the right hostage. Kelson had forced peace because of that very same problem. No one trusted.
no subject
Date: 2018-05-27 02:07 am (UTC)"I am sure that is where my Kingdom is heading," Alfred says, a sigh escaping him. Whether it is with the other Saxon kingdoms or the North men he would be at war and he could only hope that he wouldn't be fighting two wars at once.
no subject
Date: 2018-05-27 02:43 am (UTC)"I have no doubt you can convince them. Ultimately it depends on what each wants, what moves who. Some depend more on rational arguments, some inspiration, others will may view it more as an investment and want something in return. But you can do it." Alfred really had no other choice it seemed.
"Your grandfather wanted to unite England?" He wasn't sure where England was or what it was a part of but it sounded important to Alfred.
no subject
Date: 2018-06-03 06:30 pm (UTC)"Yes, it's not that he was seeking to be powerful, though he did have a certain admiration for the Roman empire and I think he had a vision for a Saxon empire and that started with united the kingdoms into one."
no subject
Date: 2018-06-04 07:56 pm (UTC)While Kelson didn't have a grand destiny to live up too, he understood somewhat. It was a little weird when your patron saint took a literal interest in your work. He hoped he could live up to the dream, and dismantle some of the rampant bigotry and prejudice that had destroyed so many in Gwynedd over the years. A different kind of uniting.
As for Alfred's history lessons, to Kelson his pronunciations sounded a little off but at least he understood. Although given Kelson's literal visions of Saint Camber...he thought he better double check about Alfred's grandfather.
"Did he have a literal vision or an idea? What would your United England look like? A main seat with individual duchies and earldoms, coming together against the invaders?"